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Post by mikerice on Sept 12, 2018 23:09:08 GMT -6
I would really like to hear what the community would like to see changed at SRS.
One of my commitments is to be more consistent with having dispatchers on duty and actually being able to run the mainline trains more frequently.
But I want to hear what you are thinking, and maybe we can then create separate threads for each idea and dive into deeper discussions.
Thank you,
Mike
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Post by survivorsean on Sept 13, 2018 19:54:37 GMT -6
I'm not sure if this is popular or not, as I'm basically running my own ideas of what I'd do on a server. The reason why I put that disclaimer is I put another video out tonight explaining what this system would be like. Again keep in mind this is what I would do on my own but might be food for thought.
It takes someone who has the time or availability to host or make available a host (Scott comes to mind being retired unlike myself or others working or with other commitments) to bring a server online, on demand based on demand requests.
It would need as much input from the community supporting it as possible. In other words the times they would want to run, and the positions they are interested in doing. It would also take the host to show what times they may be open to hosting, and possibly positions they would be interested in running on their own to start things off.
A registry style system (looks like run8servers is only listing servers now and sw is not on it I noticed) would allow people to enter their interests. So lets say for example as I pointed out tonight I'm interested in hosting only 1 section of the default route for UP Mojave Sub. Here is what I hammered out on live stream tonight as I brainstormed this:
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UP MOJAVE SUB
Dispatcher - Only 1 needed, runs the entire board (would not include BNSF Mojave east of Mojave). Can be done by other train crew
Mainline Through Crew(s) - Trains not stopping for work such as through freight, IM, passenger
Mainline Work Crew(s) - Utility Conductor
Local Crew(s) - Trains that switch local industries
Yard Crew(s) - Trains that switch the yards at Bakersfield, and Mojave
Server can be 24/7 or on request pending demand
Sign a request form for time window and job above interested in
Information updates to a table that everyone can see
Host would indicate based on demand if they are running or adjust due to lack of demand etc.
Within 24 hours of actual server time running the following jobs would take place
The following locals alone take approximately 29 to 36 hours daily???
Tehachipi Turn 4
Oak Creek Turn 1
Lone Pine Turn 1
South Turn Mojave (whatever it's called) 4
SJVR Kern Jct 4
SJVR Magunden 1
SJVR Oil City 4
SJVR west?? 4
Edison Local 6
Supply Traffic would consist of the follwing? Spawned once every 24 hours with appropriate crew on demand
WCBK (Works Mojave??)
Mojave Flyer (not needed if WCBK works Mojave??)
BARBAK1 (Works Mojave?? doubt it)
BARBAK3 (as required)
Outbound Trains
BCWC (Works Mojave??)
Mojave Flyer (on the way out of a turn)
BAKBAR1 (Works Mojave?? doubt it)
BAKBAR3 (as required)
Through Traffic
Can be set up to have symbols in the random bingo ball picker. If no DS is available turn the signals off. Trains simply
Traffic could represent typical average traffic levels for route.
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The key here is is the server is hosting it's hosting because of demand, or interest of the host for demand and the clock is running. Trains would spawn on the random schedule for through traffic. Other trains that supply yards would be spawned on demand. If nobody is there to run or dispatch and the server is up, trains would simply spawn and hold at the stop signals. All signals would be back to stop before the last player leaves. Players in something this small could run and dispatch at the same time.
Now I know that probably won't work well for SW because of the interest in all the other routes, and possibly more supply. But finding the peak demand or interest of people not just the host is key. In other words if the host is confident that 1) the server will be used based on demand 2) the required jobs are going to run. Then the host can start the clock and let things roll.
This of course takes away the 24/7 element, and puts the requirement of the user to specify when he is interested in running in advance. That I know doesn't work well for everyone. What this does for me personally is it allows me if I was a host to know what is likely to be done ahead of time in advance. Planning an evening or running a certain train or local on a first come first server well in advance has it's bonus side.
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Now let me go further on expanding why I've lost interest in Run8 and why I haven't run in a month now. The lack of progression from others (on my own creations) and/or the lack of knowing what may or may not be available in planning a night. Basically SW I never really knew what I was going to be doing on a typical night. Even if I seen stuff posted a day prior, I had know idea if someone was going to be running stuff like crazy, or if it was still going to be sitting there waiting for my welcome arms. In other words there was no way to bid on something I wanted and to anticipate what I would do. So if I came on usually half way through a session because that is how my schedule is, I knew I wasn't dispatching so towards the end it often came down to utility conductor or trying to be useful. Running trains for the sake of running trains was kind of pointless, so at least that gave me purpose.
So to avoid burn out I focused on Monday and Wednesday on my own server. It became a dead wasteland, and so I gave up yet again.
Anyways hope that helps check my youtube if you want to see what the hell I'm talking about if this isn't clear.
Thanks
Sean
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Post by 5ash on Sept 13, 2018 21:29:49 GMT -6
For me, now that I'm available I would like to see things continue as they were. As I posted a few days ago, my availability has opened up and I should be able to do more. I am a "whatever it takes" kind of person so if a DS or train generator is needed then I'll do it. My issue before was availability. I couldn't commit to a full session, but now I'm in a better place to do so. I have never dispatched a MP session so it would be a challenge for sure, but again... whatever it takes. I joined run8 for the MP opportunities and that's what I'm looking for.
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Post by mikerice on Sept 14, 2018 18:11:20 GMT -6
Thanks for the details Sean, and actually I just made it through your video from 9/12 (Wednesday Night). Watching the one from last night now. Lots of information to absorb, really appreciated the review of the different routes and the possibilities for operations on each.
5ash, I appreciate your inputs and the "whatever it takes" mind set. We will get into further discussions on dispatchers and operations in general as the topics come up.
Thank you both!
Mike
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Post by anyacastiel on Sept 15, 2018 19:58:58 GMT -6
It seems like many of us are in flux right now. For my part, I enjoy doing the yard work and stuff between sessions. I'm just kind of waiting for the next set of post-session jobs to come through.
There's probably a way (maybe a shared google drive) to make the spawned-in trains available such that the session runner (who doesn't have to be a DS) can download the train files and spawn them in as required. Or, maybe, the entire run8 community "asks" the devs to add a scheduler function. It's just a list of "spawn train x at position y at time t."
If needed, our small community can see about joining a larger one, such as depot+, or another small group once or twice a month to keep us all in touch and playing together.
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Post by 5ash on Sept 16, 2018 10:11:19 GMT -6
Or, maybe, the entire run8 community "asks" the devs to add a scheduler function. It's just a list of "spawn train x at position y at time t." At one time (not too long ago) there was a screenshot on the run8 website with what looked like a scheduler. Obviously this has never been released, but from that screenshot it appears it has been looked at. It appears that screenshot has been removed, but I know it was there. |
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Post by mikerice on Sept 18, 2018 9:29:02 GMT -6
Definitely one of the things I plan to do is pre-spawn and save the essential trains in a shared folder so they can be available to everyone and we won't need to rely on me to spawn at the right time during a session. Another thought is to enable Random AI Generation during the session for through trains (not terminating within the region), so that would get us out of the world of spawning every train.
I do remember the screen shots of the AI scheduler very early when V2 was in development. For us it would work if the scheduler ran off the simulation clock which we freeze outside of dispatching sessions.
Thanks guys!
Mike
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Post by survivorsean on Sept 18, 2018 21:21:37 GMT -6
Yeah there was supposed to be a Mo Betta one, but we haven't seen it yet  That is very TD3 like but as I mentioned in tonight's live stream TD3 is far from perfect and I have lots of ideas to make that better as well. I posted my availability for tomorrow to DS if you need the help. That is really the only thing I miss doing in Run8 these days. I have some RTS2 projects with or without Run8 on the block to develop at any time now. Tried the RTS2 for Run8 world save thing the other night but gave up before I tried. Deleted the announcement I made here, explained myself on my own forum of why it failed. Was surprised you have a Wednesday session. I jumped on that one for the opportunity to dispatch. Thanks Sean |
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Post by hawk777 on Sept 21, 2018 22:49:56 GMT -6
I was away from home in early September. Before that, in late August, I got a chance to do a number of yard work items (rarely coming to dispatched sessions because they’re nearly always at times I can’t usefully get to), and then everything shut down; I kept going back once in a while in late August but there was never any work available. I’ve just gotten settled from being away, and now I’m back at SRS. I saw in another forum post that some work had been posted, and it looks like it’s still available now; perhaps I will come onto the server tomorrow and see about doing some of it if I have time. I don’t particularly want SRS to change much; I’d love to see more DS sessions I can get to (I find the weekday evening ones we have now too early; by the time I finish dinner and get on the computer, there’s maybe an hour left, which isn’t enough time to find a work item, find the train, figure out what to do, and actually do it). But even if that doesn’t happen, the schedule SRS had before I was satisfied with, just doing mostly non-DS work and enjoying occasional DS sessions on weekends or whatever.
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Post by survivorsean on Sept 22, 2018 21:31:15 GMT -6
For me personally the recent change to Wednesday and Monday was exactly what I was looking for. Apparently it was just coincidence but my available time and Mike's matched perfectly. I seen a post come up about a DS sessions starting again last Wednesday then another one for Monday. I jumped at a chance to DS and the rest is history.
For me I don't miss running trains as much as I did dispatching them. As I've mentioned in my videos dispatching trains in TD3 though more realistic in the mechanics is not as realistic for the train values and human factors that come into play for a session. You also don't get the changes in train lengths and other factors and that makes it more appealing. Not to mention if you want to see a trackside view of the area you are dispatching you can just jump to it and watch a meet while you have the signals stacked and see it unfold.
I know Mike and I shared a couple of emails recently and he mentioned something about sharing spawns etc. to possibly have more sessions. What he knows all to well as do I is the size of California now. As I said I don't want to work switchers at this time and have no immediate plans to do so. I love to become familiar with various territories or yards and locals and simply become a regular in it just like a real crew would. At the same time I don't want to get too specialized like I have been in BAR in the past and find too much pressure when things get too much like a job and I want a change or a virtual vacation.
I think a few months ago we ran into an issue where not enough work was getting done where it was difficult to have the amount of sessions we already have. I'm more than happy to see others come along and DS as well or to even have a 4th DS perhaps? But by doing so you also potentially take away the number of people running jobs that need to be done in sessions. Perhaps with TSCAD if it's coming along we could find that 2 dispatchers will be able to not only run the entire system more efficiently (I suspect that) but allow a sharing of the spawning. Mike has already talked about using some random spawns in place of the manuals for work not needed that makes sense. This frees up a position or two to allow some of the dispatchers or what used to be utility conductors to do actual real switching jobs over the line.
In fact if we have enough qualified dispatchers running it is possible that I might be willing to pinpoint certain jobs that need to be done in session. While others DS who want to do the same, and possibly sharing roles so that they run jobs familiar to them but also have their chance to dispatch if that makes any sense?
What will be interesting as I've also pointed out on my channel is where Run8 is going. Version 3 not only has plenty of unknowns (far more than 1 to 2) but imho poses the biggest thread to dividing communities. To me V3 for some is going to be exactly what some people are looking for. Others may not see a reason to change. While V3 also may bring in more territory that will make smaller groups and creators want to run something more manageable if you know what I mean. I'll be honest I fall in the later, but am happy to be doing some DS once again the way things are now.
Thanks
Sean
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Post by mikerice on Sept 25, 2018 16:22:01 GMT -6
I like it when the mainlines are being dispatched, whether I'm a dispatcher or not. The last two sessions have been a lot of fun. I also performed a hump at Barstow and did a few trim moves, which is something I haven't done forever, and that was a lot of fun too. I also did a few other jobs and created a few jobs which are on the Job List sheet. I do enjoy a variety, but to me a session where we have multiple dispatchers working the entire region together is what I enjoy most.
I would like for us to be able to dispatch the region a couple of times per week, but in order to do that in our current operating mode there's a lot of yard and local switching operations that must happen between dispatch sessions or we overload the yards quickly. Recently there has been a reduction in the amount of jobs being worked on the Job List sheet, hey it happens I know, all of us have a limited amount of time for discretionary things like trains and usually it is the lowest priority.
So I'm trying to explore some potential changes that still allow us to have a variety of jobs to work, but maybe we ramp down from trying to run locals and yards in every part of the region to something we can manage a little more easily. Probably a new post would be best to discuss this in more detail.
That's all for now. Thanks again to everyone that participates here and on the server!
Mike
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Post by survivorsean on Sept 26, 2018 10:47:45 GMT -6
Yeah dispatching mainlines that are busy with others is what I too enjoy the most. Some probably wonder why in my servers or single worlds I just didn't create some trains and start dispatching on my own, it's the cooperation of both humans along with the AI to fill in to realistic levels that make it exactly what I look for on a regular basis. Perhaps at some point that may become redundant to me, but I don't recall it ever being redundant other than my time being too short on certain nights.
As far as my own interest in running locals, humps etc. it's been a while for me as well. But yet I still don't miss it at this point. But I do challenge anyone who wants to dispatch as a 3rd or perhaps even a 4th (though I like the way we did it the other night) to step up and give it a try. I wasn't available for tonight anyways so this worked out good, and hopefully Sunday works at a time I can attend.
For me just switching with little to no others in say LA when I know I'm not too far away and can see it started to ware at me. The immersion factor started to reduce, and eventually I looked for something else on my own with little to no success. If anything though oddly enough I would be open to run a switcher when we have enough dispatchers (though I still like dispatching instead). The reason that interest me is because I'm now switching in a fluid environment. When I was dispatching in BAR Monday I know it was very tight just to get a switcher out of the Amtrak hole. I see that as a win win to make both the switcher and dispatcher some more interest. Even mainlines (though they became redundant for me as well) is much more interesting with the busy activity.
But the key here is not only do you need people who want to switch in session, you need the people who are comfortable switching when nobody else is around. The bigger the territory the tougher this gets, and I am personally glad to see those here who like to do that (even though I don't). Hopefully my contribution of DS is thought of the other way to those that are looking for that as well.
I have an idea that I used in Florida Mike that "might" help. Because I lacked those numbers myself I needed to count on myself first and hope others would come aboard to share the work. In some of the yards on Sanford Sub I set up turnaround industries in the actual yards. To do this I basically added the currently assigned train ID of the tag to the various car types and had it auto tag to other various locations. I believe you have to set up 2 industries on the same yard tracks. I that handles empties of something and converts them to loads. The other to do the opposite.
What that auto conversion will do is if demand is low for running locals, automatically tag out as if it was switched. If however demand is there (the job can be posted) the crew simply takes those cars. There are still return cars sitting in the specific industries. Places off hand I think work well is the sub yards in LA, SBD, Oro Grande, Old Yard BAR and/or Receiving, WC, MJ, BK, BAK. The only draw back is that you can't have specific tags unless you have a specific car type only. For example box cars that might have industry A ship quite a bit south, where industry B ships quite a bit north if that makes sense.
This idea might work in less popular locals vs more popular locals if that is being observed. You can try it as a trial and see how it works. I think ultimately if more people like switching in dispatched sessions, more alternatives might just draw them in. But this is such a big territory now and I think the numbers overall in Run8 are likely a bit stagnant in my opinion.
Thanks
Sean
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