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Post by Clint on Nov 27, 2019 1:19:17 GMT -6
Some of you may remember that I was working on a project to generate train files inspired by Sean's RTS software. After a long break from Run8 and this project I am back at it. I don't know if anyone is interested in this or not, but even if not, I am still going to move forward with at as a personal project more so to see if I can do it than anything else. I had successfully cracked some of the issues that Sean had with creating new spawn points in certain areas. I am fairly confident in saying that I could make a spawn point anywhere on the territory (so long as there is enough track to handle the desired train size). I have basically scrapped what I was working on previously and started from scratch using databases instead of XML files for storing data. The ultimate goal would be to make it a web based program that would augment or even eliminate the need for the google sheets, but that is way down the road, if I can even muster enough knowledge to do that. Current planned features include: - Run all 3 regions simultaneously and independently. Possibly having more than one "World" in each region.
- Add, delete, and edit trains and industries easily and on the fly. The interface will be easy to use and there will be no manual manipulation of data files to edit trains or industries.
- Set the random variance value, if any, on traffic flows. For example an industry that normally calls for 10 cars per cycle, could have a variance of +- x%. This allows for the simulation of times of lower traffic and higher traffic.
- Output reports on cycle traffic volumes, inbound train sizes, and any other information I would think useful, or others recommend to be useful.
- Built in spawn point generator, pending reliability testing. I have in the past created a stand alone spawn point generator that seemed to be pretty reliable in my limited testing of it.
- Randomization of whether trains designated as "As Needed" will spawn each cycle.
- Ability to "Order" additional trains outside of the normal cycle schedule with full or reduced capacity. (I'm thinking mainly baretables or possibly some unit trains.)
- Choose source trains for your traffic being called by industries.
- Set the blocking order of inbound trains.
Possible features that I may or may not be able to implement (most of these would be more useful if it would ever become a web based program):
- Tracking rolling stock for those that want to simulate a short line type of operation and simulate having limited resources so that locomotives specifically would respawn every time with the same numbers at appropriate times.
- Matching up the locomotive models with real world numbers so that they spawn with appropriate numbers instead of just random numbers.
- I like the idea of incorporating an economy system but that may be too much of an undertaking for me to successfully accomplish.
- Output files that can be uploaded to google sheets, mainly thinking a schedule sheet that would have all of the trains for the cycle auto populated, so you won't see any of the "As Needed" trains if they aren't actually running this cycle. Also potentially a random lateness factor on trains.
Keep in mind that I plan to make this as user friendly, and customization to the users liking as possible. You will not need to use all of the features, just use what you like to satisfy your plans. I'm including a very early screenshot of what the view/add trains user interface currently looks like. All you would have to do to add a train is fill in all the text boxes, and check the appropriate checkboxes for scheduling, then hit Add (the button changes from Add Train to just Add when you're in the process of adding a train). For those curious WADE10 is a local train out of Dewitt Yard in the Northeast Region. I have been developing a world in the Northeast Region with thoughts of maybe putting it on a server, but mostly just to test the RSM programming with. So glad that SRS is coming back. I'm excited to get things going again. Oh yeah one other thing I almost forgot...I kind of like the idea that if anyone ever started back up a network of servers for the different regions, to be able to transfer trains back and forth between the regions either prototypically, or adjust the traffic to simulate a world that only involves the 3 available regions. I think RSM could be capable of reading a train file that say exited Southwest at Seligman and convert the spawn data to bring it into an appropriate spawn point in Southeast or Northeast. There's almost limitless possibilities, but it would all be dependent on my ability to tinker and find answers, because as I've said before, I am in no way an actual programmer. I have self taught myself everything I know about programming. Anyway, here's that screen shot. I'd love to hear some feedback and any additional ideas people have or what they'd like to see out of a program like this.
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Post by survivorsean on Nov 27, 2019 16:27:10 GMT -6
You might want to catch up on what I'm doing as well  To be honest I'm not sure what happened with your system but it's coming back to me now Basically what I'm developing right now with RTS2 is spreadsheets first but I'm actually heading over to a stand alone program. For Run8 purposes only this will likely be freeware or very cheap. Long term goals take me outside of Run8 if it's dead in the water. Feel free to post your message on my forum and perhaps there is potential for collaboration. Again some of your ideas of economy etc. go in line with some of the things I'm thinking about. Automation is going to be a huge part of RTS future with or without Run8. But it all depends on my interest and motivation. Right now not much motivates me, and my son doesn't seem that interested in programming He is here watching this (or falling asleep) while I type this. He says he will do programming and likes programming but we haven't got around to doing it. But the way I see it is any time I suggest it, he doesn't seem as motivated Sounds like me! Actually this is hilarious because we are getting into a discussion as I type this. He says he is not so fond of Run8 haha. Where as I see Run8 as at least something to keep me sane when he isn't around. Anyways we are hungry so I better cook supper. Feel free as always to post on my forum. Look forward to whatever you decide or come up with. Thanks Sean |
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Post by survivorsean on Nov 27, 2019 16:42:21 GMT -6
Also if your in the northeast you might want to check in with Smiley. The poor guy has been running a server pretty much all alone 24/7. This is very interesting and if I can't produce something myself I might have some more ideas including the automation algorithms for AI switching and dispatching that I have pretty much already done in pseudocode. Unfortunately the simulator I'm using doesn't support it Other than AI humps I haven't heard any more coming to version 3 of Run8 if that ever sees the light of day. Thanks Sean |
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Post by Clint on Dec 4, 2019 19:54:28 GMT -6
Have I ever mentioned how much fun debugging is. I can get it to read the survey train and build a list of blocks, but having trouble generating a train file to spawn back in at the new spawn point. first 5 cars work fine, gotta find out whats going on with the 6th thats causing issues.
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Post by survivorsean on Dec 4, 2019 21:50:50 GMT -6
The issue you're going to run into is the smallest car is not as small as the smallest block Ski is also a programmer and he came up with a way back in V1 to read the database files to obtain the data. Unfortunately, they were removed by V2 except for the train files. That little method I mentioned to you, give it a try and see. Go with a starting block and take it from there. Not sure how that works when you try and AI a train, but I was able to get it to work when selecting a train. Thanks Sean |
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Post by Clint on Dec 5, 2019 6:25:02 GMT -6
I did attempt your suggestion. It didn't like it. Not sure if they made changes in one of the updates since you were working on it that doesn't allow that to work anymore.
I did find the issues, 2 capitalization issues in the XML file and an incorrect mathematical calculation. After correcting these issues I was able to successfully read block data and spawn a new 288 car train 3 meters behind the original one.
I get why you did it the way you did, I have watched most of your videos from back then. I am aware of the small "hidden" blocks. That is the reason that I'm attempting to generate multiple survey trains in succession to get the most complete and accurate information possible. My opinion though is if it's not going to be right and reliable I will leave that functionality out of the program. If that ends up being the case I will hard code spawn points in to the program as well as create new spawn points for people upon request. Another option would be to include the auto spawn point generator but also direct users of the program to contact me for custom spawn points that might be trickier areas where the software fails to generate a valid spawn point.
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Post by survivorsean on Dec 5, 2019 11:11:01 GMT -6
Yes I should have suggested the overlap as that was the only way I could figure it out. The issue with the original RTS is that back in the day they didn't have blocks that small. It had something to do with more accurate grade increases or something. This will be improved in RTS2 if I ever get that far. Looks like I have about a year to play around if I want. Too bad to hear that the quick way I came up with no longer works either. The overlaps should work but I think I've seen as little as 2 meter blocks if I recall. Fair to say there may even be 1 meter blocks.
Thanks
Sean
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Post by Clint on Dec 5, 2019 11:34:07 GMT -6
Yeah. I am trying to make it work. If it doesn't work reliably then I'll appeal the feature and go back to manually doing spawn points. It can be time consuming but if you're diligent you can find even the smallest of blocks.
Im still a little confused on what the start nodes indicate, I used to think it was based on three direction of the train where 0 is one end of the track section and 1 was the other end of the track section, but I have also seen start nodes of 2 and 3. I think I saw these in Bakersfield where you had issues creating a spawn point if I remember correctly. I also believe that they were on very small blocks which it's probably why you weren't able to find them.
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Post by survivorsean on Dec 6, 2019 11:45:38 GMT -6
No I've been able to detect the smallest blocks through overlap measures. I forget what the start node is all about myself. If Ski was around, he would have a better answer.
The issue for me was the code was not set up to deal with blocks in between trucks.
Thanks
Sean
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Post by Clint on Dec 6, 2019 16:22:31 GMT -6
My code was effective at dealing with the smaller blocks when generating the train files. My hang up right now is systematically finding the smaller blocks to make sure they get added to the spawn point data. It's a lot of trial and error but I'm still making progress.
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Dakota
New Member
aka Bob Denny
Posts: 32
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Post by Dakota on Jan 3, 2020 0:48:34 GMT -6
All I can say is best wishes and enjoy the journey! Just remember the 6 stages of debugging. I've been at #6 many times in a lifetime as a developer. Learn to laugh at yourself!  |
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Post by Clint on Jan 4, 2020 23:36:56 GMT -6
I too have been at stage 6 many times. You change one thing that you don't think is going to break everything, but in reality it does. Here is a teaser of the train configuration screen that I finally completed tonight, fully functional not just a pretty picture.  |
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Post by survivorsean on Jan 5, 2020 20:11:28 GMT -6
For the small blocks you can try an overlapping routine. Whatever the smallest car is divided by how many steps you want to take to find them. At least that is what I did before to find them. This issue was RTS code was not designed for smaller blocks. The spawning from one point not worrying about the end points worked good for my latest attempts but not perfect.
Best of luck.
Sean
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Post by southernman on Apr 2, 2020 14:28:48 GMT -6
Sorry so late to the party!
I would LOVE to have a program like that to create the XML so I can build more realistic trains for my (currently) single player operation. Eventually, I would like to be on a server but I know I'm not ready yet. Used to be a programmer for 20 years and an original user of MTS and just got into R8.
Thank you!
Brad aka SouthernMan
Near Northeast Dacula (GA) - Milepost SG538.0
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Post by chrisb on Apr 2, 2020 14:56:19 GMT -6
Brad,
Hop on the SRS server anytime. Plenty of good folks on there to help you with anything you need. Sunday is our next operating session.
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Post by southernman on Apr 2, 2020 15:24:10 GMT -6
Thank you Chris! |
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Post by survivorsean on Apr 26, 2020 9:43:52 GMT -6
Just a quick note as I really didn't say goodbye, I thought this would be a good place as you mentioned my RTS inspiration etc. I'm hoping you move what was once RTS forward as I know longer had the will to do it in Run8. My YouTube and forum is still active and available. Of course I've begun to build a Niagara route in Trainz 2019 and have not been this passionate in about a decade (kind of like I was when I started Run8).
Before you hear crap any place else let me set the record straight. Because you guys have come to respect me and I see many of my ideas passed on to some great people who have carried the torch of what was RTS for Run8 alive. I may not follow here has often, that doesn't mean I won't keep an eye at a distance.
This has been a home for me for years since I brought the RTS server down and I appreciate the continued support of what is still in my opinion the best train simulator on the planet. I'm hoping great things come to Run8 and I may be back again some day. It's on my hard drive, and I appreciate all the support and kind words over the years.
Of course your always welcome to advertise any Run8 server or activities on my forum as well. Any project you have please the forums will remain for Run8 categories and are not going any place. Many people still ask me to this day if I am continuing with RTS development or where my server is. That is the stretch of YouTube and I guess my brand etc.
Keep in touch guys, I'm not that far away.
Take care
Sean
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To be honest I'm not sure what happened with your system but it's coming back to me now 
